LDD: I am very glad to be meeting you, Dean Lazarus. First of all, I attended your conference with the 1As this morning: is there anything that you got from that conference that was new to you? How do you feel about the new cohort?
Dean Lazarus: Yes, well, it was a very interesting time for me. I’m always glad to meet the students— the new students— when they arrive in Sciences Po, and they have, um, a new vision of everything, and especially this year, because we’re implementing a reform of the curriculum. So it was very interesting to get their feedback. I also felt that the atmosphere was very calm and focused on studies; and also people seemed happy to be here. So I enjoyed that exchange with the students.
I’m very glad to hear that. Continuing on the new bachelor program, which is, I think, one of the main objects of your visit here. What do you think was the main challenge in the internal process of figuring out how to work out the new curriculum?
I think um, when we did that reform, the challenges moved along the way. The first challenge was to find a way to change the second year and to have more choices with the majors, the different disciplines. So it was, like, a really technical challenge. We wanted to change the architecture and also get many different things in the curriculum. So we had to find like a tetris, find ways to make everything enter in our programs. And then, I think there is also a diplomatic part because many of the things we are implementing depend on the professors. We need the professors to be on board and to agree on changing some of the courses, some of the assessment of the organisation of the curriculum. So I spent a lot of time discussing with the departments or with some professors. I also wanted to discuss with the students, with the administrative part. So it’s not only creating something new, it’s also taking people on board. So, it was, yes, it was quite interesting, but sometimes we had some difficulties because we thought that some new ideas would be great and that everybody would like them. But then some people raised organisational problems or intellectual problems. So, yes, I would say I really wanted to have a consensus, because it’s going to be for— I hope— a long time, that we’re going to have this curriculum. So I don’t want people to get into that in um, a bad mood. So, and I think that we’ve succeeded on that part. And yes, no, it is the real test; the reality test I would say, with the students starting this new curriculum. So we’ll see what is happening, but I feel that everything’s ready, all the campuses are ready, and until now the first two weeks seem to have been okay.
That’s a whole new reform that was implemented this year, but I also heard a lot about the new report on how to move Sciences Po and both the undergraduate and graduate programs towards a more European perspective. So, from the report of the Europe committee that was published, I think, yesterday or the day before, there is a lot of new information, axes of recommendations. And there’s one that, um, was brought to my attention specifically, which is the choice of having a new European track implemented in the undergraduate college. I saw that the different alternatives that were proposed were either to mix Dijon and Nancy, or to have Paris as a new European campus, but keeping Nancy and Dijon as distinct entities, but also a third one to have a new Brussels campus implemented. What I want to ask you is why were the choices of these alternatives pushed forward rather than simply strengthening the current European minors that were already on Dijon and Nancy, and offering simply more classes in English?
Yes, so this report, um, has been written by the two presidents of this group that has been decided by Luis Vassi or president. So he decided to have around 30 high-level people to think about Europe. And so we had many people who work on the European Commission, who had responsibilities within Europe, from many different countries, and also some deans, like me, who were involved in the discussion, and then they gave some thoughts and direction. But a report doesn’t mean that we’ve made decisions. So now we have those ideas, those directions, and we need to process them, to examine all the advantages and maybe weaknesses of some propositions. The first thing that I must say is that we don’t think about opening a Brussels campus for the bachelor. So if it happens, it’s going to be for the master level. And the question of having two campuses focusing on Europe, is a very old question for the bachelor. So it’s not a surprise that it’s been raised by the committee, and I think that’s something we need to think about, because sometimes for the candidates, it’s not completely clear. And we need to just examine what is working or not working. And for me, that’s very important to say what you said, strengthening what we already have, and that’s also how I did the reform. My idea has always been to keep what is working, and to deepen that, and to add other things. So that will be the spirit of how we will deal with those propositions.
I had a question that is kind of in the same theme. Many students are raising questions here, as well as in other campuses, about equality of opportunities across different campuses. Last year, when you and Luis Vassy were present in Le Havre for the inauguration of the new common room, you were asked about conferences being organised mainly on the Paris campus and scheduled mostly on Tuesdays, which is a day that is widely inaccessible for us to go to Paris on as accommodation for the night is very expensive for students. Is there any way that this could be resolved? How do you plan on balancing out those opportunities?
Well, I think equal opportunity is a bit different than that. Yeah, equal opportunities means to admit students from different social backgrounds, which is much more important than accessing some conferences.
Sorry, I meant it in general, as access to intellectual events.
And yes, that’s something different between Paris and the rest of the campuses; there are more events in Paris. But still, as we answered last time, for the bachelor students in Paris, it’s not always possible to go to those events because they are very crowded and there are also all the master students on the campus. So, on paper, you may think that the Paris campus students spend their time going to conferences and having access to everything, but it’s not the case for everybody; there are limits to what they get. And in the campuses, you got the proximity of the campus staff, the fact that the teachers are closer to you than in Paris. So, you have things in the [regional] campuses that are different than in Paris; and I won’t say that you lack opportunities. We also organise many conferences and events in the campuses, by the campus administration and also by the students. So there is a long list of speakers and interesting people who come to your campus. You can always invite people: the Sciences Po brand also works for the campus. So, when you invite people from Sciences Po, if you’re in Le Havre, they will come because it is Sciences Po. So you have this equal opportunity I think. But, yes, I know that some events are only in Paris; but then when you will have your bachelor’s, you will be able to come to Paris and to go to that.
Let me just check the time so that you don’t miss the [rentrée solennelle] opening conference. Maybe one last question. At different times where you were there talking in the last year, you emphasized a lot the role of having a secure environment for students’ mental and physical well-being. However you also claim to not be in favour of having credits attributed to students for their participation in sports or arts. How do you plan on getting more students to participate in arts, to participate in sports, and to engage in that student life that is so good for their mental well-being without having it institutionalised in the curriculum?
Yes, well, for the art, it is credited. In the first and second years, we have the artistic workshops that are worth three credits. So, it is completely
credited in the curriculum. For sports, you have credits, but they are optional credits. So it’s not mandatory to have sports. They have credits but those don’t really count for getting your degree.
I meant it more so in the context of associations and artistic BDA events, rather than the artistic workshops.
Yes, but that is, and we already had the discussion last year as you noticed, I think the limit is at one point it is still voluntary activities. So we can’t organize everything in students’ lives. We give a lot of help for student lives: you have rooms, you have money for that, you have organisational help from the campus. So at one point, this is about your will to participate or not. And, I can say also that sometimes, for the well-being of students, it’s also good not to have too many things. Some students are involved in four different associations and they’re exhausted by all the different projects that they have because they don’t want to miss anything; and sometimes it’s too much. But I don’t want to monitor that for you. You are young adults, so you have to do your own experiences on that. And, yes, that’s how we do things. We try to get a balance between what we organise ourselves and what is outside; but you know that you will always find help from us for this organisation. However, giving credits would mean that it is an academic requirement, which is not.
I think we are out of time, thank you so much for sitting down with me, and LDD today.
You’re welcome. Thank you for your questions.
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